AI-generated transcript of Solidarity LIVE! Welcome Project (immigration), Tufts Mutual Aid, South Korea

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[Anna Callahan]: everyone. Thanks for tuning in to Solidarity Live where we take questions and stories from the community in Somerville and Medford. We bring in experts to talk about those issues and then we work to solve those together. Today I have on someone from the Welcome Project. She's going to talk all about everything they do with our immigrant community and a specific fund that she's working with today. And I'm going to bring her right in. So this is Let me have her join us. Great, this is Kenya Alfaro of The Welcome Project. Hi, Kenya, you're live.

[Unidentified]: Hi.

[Anna Callahan]: Hi, how are you? I'm doing well, as well as I guess you can be right now. Yeah, yeah. I would love for you to just tell us a little bit about what the Welcome Project does in general, and then specifically how you're dealing with COVID.

[gDhRmP_86Kw_SPEAKER_02]: Sure. So my name is Kenya Alfaro. I'm the Director of Parental Engagement at the Welcome Project. And we are an immigrant nonprofit based in the city of Somerville, but we work with immigrants throughout the whole greater Boston region. And our mission is to build the collective power of immigrants so that they can participate in community decisions, whatever that might look like, whether it be cities or schools or their own neighborhoods. And so usually what we would have kind of going on throughout the school year is an array of different programs. We have our largest program is our adult ESOL program and we serve over 200 adult immigrants in those classes. We have an interpretation program for bilingual high school youth in both Medford and Somerville high school. And we have a lot of different other youth programming that focus on K-8 students, whether it be cultural identity, and just kind of exploring what it means for them to be bicultural. And, you know, we act upon a lot of different organizing movements as well, like the driver's license campaign here in Massachusetts, we have a rapid response network serving to, you know, inform community members of any ICE activity as well. So that's just kind of like a quick snapshot of you know, usually what we have going on.

[Anna Callahan]: Great. Um, I will mention, I just got a comment from someone saying that there's a little bit of an echo, so I don't know if anybody's not muted or because we have people later in the show who are on right now. But if you can mute, that would be great. Hopefully this problem will resolve. Great. So it sounds like you guys really have good insight into our immigrant population and how they're doing. And I would love to hear as much as you can how our immigrant community is doing now during COVID.

[gDhRmP_86Kw_SPEAKER_02]: Sure, yeah, so I think we've taken the past, I don't know how many days we've been in this situation, just to kind of assess some needs and figure out, you know, a lot of the first initial things we're finding out how our families that we were working with were doing. And then it became, well, how are the rest of our immigrant families doing throughout these cities? And so, you know, through the Welcome Project, we were hearing a lot of stories of folks losing their jobs, of folks kind of being getting worried about paying rent. Food access was becoming a really, really large issue. And so, you know, the city of Somerville, you know, I think really stepped in and did a lot of things to provide some of those food resources.

[Anna Callahan]: You're saying food resources are a problem because of just lack of funds, is that right?

[gDhRmP_86Kw_SPEAKER_02]: It's lack of funds, but also, you know, at a certain point, you also did have to like really fast, you had to have a mask to go inside a grocery store and lots of people didn't have So they felt intimidated to go into grocery stores to go and get the supply of the food. And so funding and kind of that fear of like going, what if people are going to judge me if I don't have the proper attire to go inside? So those kind of were coming about just in the people that we were talking about, people that we were talking to. And that spurred us to, we had, we

[Anna Callahan]: I think it seems like you've frozen. Ah, so give me one second, everyone. It looks like we had a little problem with Skype. Hang on. We are just trying to get Kenya Alfaro back on from the Welcome Project. I'm going to go ahead and do what I can. to get Kenya back on, to get our folks from Tufts Mutual Aid back on. They are also, ah, great. So it looks like, ah, we have everyone back. Amazing. So sorry about that. I do not know exactly what happened, but I lost all of you and my whole Skype went down. So I apologize. Thanks, everyone, for sticking with us. So Kenya. You were talking about food resources and how the city of Somerville has really done some work there to make food resources available to people.

[gDhRmP_86Kw_SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they did. I think, you know, the public schools, we were hearing a lot of families kind of going into the public schools. They did an amazing job at providing breakfast and lunch for a lot of families. You know, the food pantries like started up and running and trying to really get some food out to families. And that was, I think we've heard that be an issue. And the calls I've been making maybe the past two weeks as well, I've been hearing a lot of people who are still worried about food in other cities, not in Somerville, but in other cities as well.

[Anna Callahan]: Right, yeah. And do you know if folks in that community have been plugging into the mutual aid, so the Medford and Somerville mutual aid, or in any of the other cities' mutual aid projects?

[gDhRmP_86Kw_SPEAKER_02]: A few of them had. There are a lot who had not heard of mutual aids, nor did they understand the concept of a mutual aid, right? So, I also, you know, like, was learning about, okay, what does this mean? What does it look like? And so, I think the past two weeks that we've been, I've been making a lot more phone calls. My next question is, oh, did you know that you can also get food from other places? have you contacted mamas, have you contacted like the Cambridge or have you practiced other mutual aid networks to get them plugged into different resources so that they know that they're out there. And I think it comes, people are very surprised, at least the families that I work with, they're very surprised that someone's just going to go delivery groceries to their front doorstep, but they're really, really appreciative of that as well.

[Anna Callahan]: Great, yeah. And you have a particular fund that you administer, is that right? Do you want to talk a little bit about that?

[gDhRmP_86Kw_SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, sure. So the Immigrant Assistance Fund that we have running through the Whatcom Project right now, it is We started, we had a donor who really wanted to help out. We knew that there were a lot of economic hardships and we knew that we wanted to help out. We just didn't, we weren't sure how to do it. And, you know, there was a first step and more people wanted to see how they could help us and how they could donate and how they can help families. And it quickly became something very, I guess, easy that we said we needed to do something, even if it's, providing a little bit of financial support. And so this fund is open to immigrant families in Somerville, Medford, Cambridge, Everett, and Malden. And specifically those areas, we know that Somerville does have some support services but We have a lot of students who come from those different cities, and we really wanted to make sure that if our students are coming from those, that means that there are other families who are also in those cities who might also be needing some resources. And so we really wanted to be the outreach where in some cities there might not be as much support as maybe Somerville has. We wanted to make sure that at least families could have a little bit of something through us. And so, you know, it's a very simple, I guess, quick application. It's just a name and a phone number with language preference. And we give folks a call back. We ask a few questions. And from there, we kind of see how we can support them. As we tell a lot of the families, it's not a lot of of money that we are able to support them, but it helps with a little bit that they might be having and then connecting them through different resources throughout. And so I think, you know, a lot of the fund and the phone calls, you know, the communication with families is, yeah, we're providing them some financial support that they might need, but also it's about connecting them to different community resources that they might not be aware are there. And that just might be for many different reasons. It just may be communication, it be like language barriers or whatever it might be. So this fund is just there to give a little, to just give a little, a partial little cushion for any expenses that they see for themselves and for their families, really. Yeah.

[Anna Callahan]: I'll just remind people that if you have any questions, you can just put those in the comment box and we can pull those right in. In your outreach, you guys must have a lot of languages on hand, I imagine. When you're calling through people, how many different languages do you have to rely on to reach out to people?

[gDhRmP_86Kw_SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. I'm a native Spanish speaker, so I do basically all of the Spanish intakes. And then the second language, the highest need that we had was Portuguese. And we, because we have an interpreters program within our organization, our interpreters have been able to help out in Portuguese. Spanish and Portuguese have been the highest needs right now. We had some for Creole, which as well, we also have some interpreters and some other volunteers who were able to help. We also have some families that we work with who are higher, like English, confident and so they have also been helping us. We've been able to stipend them and they've been helping us as well with some of these calls. So it's really thanks to the interpreters. I've rediscovered three-way calls again, which I had to Google how to do a three-way call. And so even though like our staff internally who are making the phone calls might not have all of those languages, we do have, you know, our mission within the Welcome Project, because it supports all of these programs, allows us then to have that language capacity to be able to reach out to as many families as we have.

[Anna Callahan]: Great, that is great. And are there ways that people can help? I mean, it sounds like people can donate to that fund specifically. And the fund I assume is like directly related to COVID and it started with COVID. And so it really has to do with that. Are there other ways in addition to that, that people can help?

[gDhRmP_86Kw_SPEAKER_02]: You know, as of right now, the donating to the fund is really, really amazing for us. We're always looking for, in-house we don't have folks who can help us maybe with like graphics. So if anyone is like volunteering for graphics or for media or photography or whatever it is, we're always kind of looking for ways for folks to help us create something that could give us a bigger outreach as well. So volunteering, there are a lot of skill sets that we wish we could have at the Wellcome Project, and sometimes it just takes that one reaching out to us and saying, hey, I have this skill set. Do you have any need? Would you like any of this? And usually we do. We need some support in that. And so that's another way as well. Yeah, but like you said, this fund really came out because of COVID. And we want to make sure that we are able to just keep sustaining this fund as much as possible. then I would say about donating to this fund is also a huge, huge, huge way to help us. And again, any other idea that you have, we have people approach us of, do you need art supplies for families? Like, yeah, we'll take some, we'll deliver them, we'll kind of do like anything that's out of the box and creative, we will probably find a way that we can kind of use these volunteer opportunities.

[Anna Callahan]: Yeah, good. It sounds like at one point there was a need for masks. I know you know, a lot of folks and mamas are excited to make masks, so I don't know if that's something that people still need.

[gDhRmP_86Kw_SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you know, with this whole new rule in Somerville, we're kind of really trying to assess what that means.

[Anna Callahan]: Let's be clear, there's a new law in Somerville saying that when out of your house, you must wear a mask, and there's a fine, up to $300, I think, fine related to that.

[gDhRmP_86Kw_SPEAKER_02]: Right and so we're you know we're trying to kind of assess what that looks like and if people are even hearing that news because a lot of this news does go out through any communication like city communication and a lot of our families aren't actually subscribed to that nor do they feel comfortable subscribing to those email communications or even phone call communications. So I've been asking whenever people tell me like oh I haven't been going to the groceries I try to ask them is it because what is it like do you need a mask and I've had a few people who have said yeah I would like a face covering and I would like a mask but we're not entirely sure how we would even get them those to them quite yet so we are trying to brainstorm and really rethink what this what this order, what this law means for our families and the impact that it's going to have on them and also accessing other different resources, basic, basic resources. So that might be a need. And again, there's some things that we don't even think about on the spot that someone could email us and say, hey, did you think about this? Or do you know if you need this? And we might actually need it. We just haven't actually thought about it in the moment.

[Anna Callahan]: Great. Do you want to give just a little plug for how people can find you, how people can donate to the fund, or help out in other ways? Specifically, what's the website?

[gDhRmP_86Kw_SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, sure. So folks can visit our website, it's welcomeproject.org, and you can find information about us and other programs that we have as well. We are thinking about potentially doing things virtually this summer, and so one of the things that we're always looking for are ESOL teachers or folks to help us with our, like, camp or after-school programming. That website will kind of give you more of a better overview, I think, of what we do. If you would like to donate, there's also a little blue button on the top right corner as well that you can donate, or you can also find out a bit more information about our fund right there as well, or any other resources regarding COVID in multiple cities as well.

[Anna Callahan]: Wow, thank you so much. Great work that you guys are doing. Wonderful to have you on and keep us updated. Let us know as things change, if there are more needs and other ways that people can help.

[gDhRmP_86Kw_SPEAKER_02]: Great, thank you so much for having me.

[Anna Callahan]: Thank you, great to have you. So our next guests are from, hang on, we're gonna add, from Tufts Mutual Aid. We have, I'm getting closer, here we go, Madeline Clark and Nikhil and Nikhil, I'm gonna let you say your name because I think I might get it wrong. And you know what, I hope that you two will introduce Tufts Mutual Aid and introduce yourselves. And somehow my computer is not plugged in, like it's plugged in to my, and my battery's gonna die. So I'm gonna duck out for just one second in this COVID home studio here. But why don't you go ahead and introduce Tufts Mutual Aid and yourself. I have you live now. But I think you're muted. Ah, great. Nikhil, great.

[oZIdem99_eo_SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, sure. So Madeline and I are part of the many, many organizers and members of Tufts Mutual Aid. So we're essentially a collective of people who are coming together, well, kind of banded together really quickly after Tufts announced, just like many other universities. shutdown and like cessation of live classes and other activities and a transition to virtual learning and that meant that people had to move off campus essentially across the country across the world for like more than five days. So mutual has been specifically has been focused on making sure that the students who are most in need of resources get the resources that they need. So essentially, we're a facilitator. Yeah. Would you like to add anything to that, Madeline?

[oZIdem99_eo_SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I think you covered it very, like really well. Um, yeah, and Yeah, I think that's about covers the basics.

[Anna Callahan]: So can you tell us some of the stories that you've heard as you've been working with the folks that you're working with? What do you hear from people? What's happening in their lives as a result of these changes?

[oZIdem99_eo_SPEAKER_00]: So, I mean, I think there's just such a huge variety in the circumstances that students are in, and I'll just probably start chronologically from the need to really find the resources to move off campus, essentially. That was the first challenge, I think. A lot of monetary resources for travel, finding a place to stay, so housing, and also finding food and other resources that you need for literally just packing and all these things that just come up, unexpectedly, because this is by definition a very unexpected situation. After that, we've obviously as an educational institution. had to deal with as students and also as professors and instructors and just members of the Tufts community had to deal with this new virtual mode of learning. And of course, the experiences that we had in person didn't directly translate to a virtual environment. So many people are in either in homes that do not really support their academic success. So that could be because for a range of reasons, we've heard people with unwell parents or other relatives and people that they're living with in very small cramped spaces or in not emotionally just unsustainable and unhealthy environments as well at home and having added responsibilities. So there are a lot of like academic and policy and systemic changes that had to come about not only in terms of tangible resources but also in terms of the wide variety of situations that students found themselves in and like really making sure that their voices were heard by the administration and allowing them a platform to like voice those changes, voice their concerns and their needs and really get those needs met. and change the expectations that we have as well.

[Anna Callahan]: We have a question from Joel Greenberg. He says, how much notice were people given to move off campus? Seems like a huge burden for students and families.

[oZIdem99_eo_SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was about, I think it was like five days, just about. I think we got the, or maybe six, we got an email notification on March 10th that we would have to leave campus and everyone had to be gone by the following Monday. And so it was like the five, six days in between there were just a madhouse. Like you could just feel like the panic and the grief in the air. And both of us are seniors. And so there was just the added layer of, This time is supposed to be the last couple months, getting to have some closure. And so having to rush all of that was definitely difficult. And a lot of tough students live off campus anyways. Most juniors and seniors live in off-campus houses. And so there are a lot of folks who have stuck around. But obviously, it's very different since we can't be seeing each other anymore. Yeah.

[Anna Callahan]: Yeah. And would you say, I mean, obviously you don't know numbers, but maybe you do, like what percentage of tough students actually had to leave town, like had to find, like were on campus and had to find somewhere else and ended up maybe going home?

[oZIdem99_eo_SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. Do you know any numbers off the top of your head?

[oZIdem99_eo_SPEAKER_00]: I feel like it has to be above half the student body, definitely. It has to be at least 60 to 70 percent of students because students who left campus are either juniors or seniors because you have to stay on campus for the first two years, so that's already half the population of Tufts. And then there's obviously seniors like me who did live on campus or juniors, whatever year you are, even graduate students who had to just leave. So honestly it's definitely in the thousands. If you include graduate students as well it's definitely in like about four or five, easily five thousand or more. So yeah it's just massive like move out of students. And that's just, that's a tough as a medium-sized school. There are obviously, you know, state schools across the country and, you know, other places that have to, that essentially are moving literally millions of students across the country and world. So, lots.

[Anna Callahan]: Yeah. And so, you know, it's interesting because when I When I first heard of Tufts Mutual Aid, I thought, okay, it's like, you know, the other mutual aid societies helping provide, you know, helping people make sure they're safe, that they can pay their rent, that they can get groceries and things. But it sounds like you are also pretty deeply involved in making sure that students who have to now continue their education, are able to do that part of it. So, like, how do you balance those? Or, you know, what do you feel has been happening for students who have to continue their education, have to do everything online? Like, how disruptive has that been to their education? Maybe talk about that side, just the educational aspect of it.

[oZIdem99_eo_SPEAKER_00]: Yeah so I will probably speak a little bit about this just because um I've had the privilege to be involved with a group of students just but like we we honestly are working collectively together on pretty much everything in mutual aid which is one of the most beautiful things about it. I honestly have not seen a more like restorative and like inspiring thing um movement happen in a long while if if not since I've come to Tufts. But honestly like it's really it's really great to see people kind of pouring their energies into what they're passionate about. So a bunch of us kind of worked on these systemic changes that we wanted the administration to make and liaised with the Senate, where that already has existing relationships with the admin. So we actually like made a course guidelines proposal that initially wasn't pulled from the student body, It wasn't exactly, you know, voicing every single concern that the students had, but it was taken from the surveys that we sent out with the general concerns. And then also later what we did is sent out another survey asking what people needed. So in the beginning, there were a bunch of surveys. So that's how we kind of gathered information. And within this like course changes or guidelines proposal to the, essentially the like, higher-ups like the deans of engineering, the school of engineering arts and sciences, we identified like some core issues. So we requested that attendance requirements and synchronous learning were not required. So that doesn't, that means you should be able to access and view all course material including discussions and provided some suggestions of how to conduct discussions asynchronously with multimodal engagement. And that's something that I think should be a feature of education in general. I mean like I can talk forever about pedagogy so this is very much my area of interest and I feel I have a lot of strong feelings about it but in this situation I think it was most important to make sure that students could do what they needed to do and take care of themselves and their lives and their home lives which has so much variety without conforming to rigid standards set by the existing academic system that we have in higher education here in America. So, which itself is comparatively sometimes, depending on like what other educational systems you're comparing to, could be a lot more relaxed and liberal, but that's only when I think people in power allow students, allow faculty, allow everyone else to feel comfortable to make their own decisions and choices and feel like they actually have an option. So that was one big thing we advocated for, making things available online, the option of alternative assessments and really sending out a statement to urge all faculty, which got sent out to all faculty, to urge them to switch away from traditional exams because the level playing field, which in my opinion does not even exist, because there's so many systemic barriers and so many uneven turfs that we navigate just in our like multiple identities every single moment. So that supposed playing field, level playing field, would not exist if you are taking an exam from varied environments and not like all in the same room. At least that was an argument we could easily make. So we kind of targeted what we collectively knew that the administration would respond to combined with what we felt the student body would most need. So essentially, yeah, that kind of summarizes and also like having exam policies that allow students to take exams unproctored, and in terms of like the efficacy of it, a lot of this did not actually amount to, because as we know policy change takes quite a long time, and especially when the administration and others are dealing with so many unexpected factors of this pandemic, they weren't really making the systemic or like policy level changes. I don't think they would have, might have been, I'm not sure whether they would have been able to, but it's something that we definitely are urging for the future so that students have a more equitable educational experience, but essentially just making sure that the word gets out so that then faculty who do have a lot of breadth of choice in terms of like what they require for their courses make a decision that works for them and for the students because they're also facing additional responsibilities a lot of the time.

[Anna Callahan]: Yeah, yeah. So just a last question about the other side. So the making sure people can get groceries, they can pay for their rent, all of these things. Have you seen, for the students that remain, are you interfacing at all with mamas, with another different mutual aid? Is this mostly students helping students? How are you able to help those students who are in the area to be able to sort of afford the changing circumstances that are happening to them now, but specifically like rent, food, the basics?

[oZIdem99_eo_SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so we have an on-campus food pantry that got started in the wake of campus closing. And we were able to secure like an on-campus space in our campus center. And with all the students moving out, we were able to collect an enormous amount of food from students leaving and convert that to food to supply a pantry and then have been restocking it with support from Tufts Dining Services and very generous donations from the Graduate Student Council and a couple other sources. The pantry has been getting an enormous amount of use. It's open Monday through Friday. And every time that I go, a couple students will pass through. And every time I go, we will have needed to restock it already. And so we aren't collecting any kind of hard data on how much food is flowing through it or how many students are using it, just for privacy reasons and just the capacity. or lack thereof, of being able to keep track of those kind of numbers. But just anecdotally, it's been getting a lot of use. And it's super heartening to know that we're able to help fill a gap in people having access to food. And whether that's just because they're nervous to go to a grocery store or can't afford it, just being able to support the Tufts community in that way has been super heartening to be a part of that. And we're hoping that the pantry will be able to stay open at least until the end of the school year, if not for the summer as well, and hopefully lays the groundwork for something more long-term. But it's been like a good, a helpful stopgap measure in the meantime. And there's, yeah, so it's been getting a lot of use.

[Anna Callahan]: Yeah.

[oZIdem99_eo_SPEAKER_01]: What do you see as the long-term? It's hard to know at this point, because there's still so much uncertainty as to whether students will even get to return to campus in the fall. I feel like every day I'm reading some kind of article that talks about one side or the other. And so I think it's impossible to know at this point. like what the fall will look like. And it's tricky because like both of us are seniors and so it won't affect us directly. But it's, I know I have a lot of friends who are juniors and just the uncertainty of knowing if they'll get to come back for their senior year is heartbreaking and yeah, really scary.

[Anna Callahan]: Yeah, absolutely. All right, how can, what can people do? I mean, does it like, like it really has been, the Tufts Mutual Aid is the students helping the students, students who have moved, leaving food, and the graduate students helping in the, you know, so are there ways that other people in the community can be helpful, and what would that be?

[oZIdem99_eo_SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so there, I mean, several ways, I think. So first of all I think when Madeline talked about the food pantry earlier that has been one of like our core like very grounding efforts that you know she and so many other people have put such an amazing amount of effort into and there's really paid dividends um like that has been really useful even for me personally um I can definitely speak to that. So that is something we'd love to love to see continue. I think, Madeline, you could probably say more about how we might want to continue that or solicit donations for the pantry, if possible, especially to rescue food. I think, yeah, Madeline's like one of the coordinators for food rescue at Tufts. So, yeah, so that's something that we'd love to continue, right?

[oZIdem99_eo_SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. Yes, definitely. I think, like I said, it just always seems like we're running out of food in the pantry. We're connected with some local non-profits that have been really supportive in helping us access food, but any other resources are just like, whether that's actual food or or just advice on how to run a food pantry. It's been super helpful for us since we're students and there are staff members that have been really helpful in getting it started. It's an incredibly collaborative process.

[Anna Callahan]: And how can people reach you? Is there a website? Is there an email address people can reach out to? A phone number? Anything?

[oZIdem99_eo_SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think we have a Facebook page for Tufts Mutual Aid that is checked on by several volunteers daily, and that's Tufts Mutual Aid Facebook. I don't know if there's anything else.

[oZIdem99_eo_SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so the Facebook page is actually the main point of contact, TUFTS, mutual aid, and essentially, for people who are not on Facebook, we do have a website that is also linked in the face. I believe even without an account, you would be able to access the website. But our main point of contact is really the Facebook page, and you can ask for and offer help. by messaging us or just taking a look at all the posts that we have about the pantry about other efforts especially like if you are a student to share your experiences doesn't matter where you are coming from or if you go here like one dream of ours is to really expand this keep this going not only for Tufts, but also outside of Tufts. So we definitely want it to be a continued effort, certainly within our institutional community, but also outside of it. So now that I think the semester is over, we really want to kind of branch out into better interfacing with mamas, that's something I personally definitely wanted to do and like talking to other nonprofits, seeing how we can help because also there is a bunch of us who like really who whose summer plans have been you know either changed or you know ruined. So yeah a lot of most students or would not be able to go to their in-person internships if they have any, or jobs or whatever they plan to do. So students who are in the area and are willing and able virtually, we'd love to help out and to, you know, fulfill your mission and also like make sure that we can make this a sustainable effort and always open to new ideas. So I think that will definitely pick up in the next week or so. So that would be a great time to reach out and just kind of liaise with us and kind of just like figure out how we can not only get through this situation, but like life in general a lot more equitably than before.

[Anna Callahan]: Great. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thanks both of you for coming on. It's really great to hear about, you know, this part of our community that we probably don't hear a lot about, you know, outside of the Tufts community. really great work you're doing. Thank you for for doing it. And thanks for being on. All right, so our next person, and I'm just gonna click click here for a minute or two. Okay, we now have someone who is from here. But it's currently in South Korea. And I don't know how many people listening know about South Korea and the way that they have dealt with COVID, but it's very different from how the US has dealt with COVID. And so here is Howard Kim. I'm just going to pop your name up here. And you are live. So Howard, it's great to see you.

[TAOkJhjHQMM_SPEAKER_00]: It's great to see you as well.

[Anna Callahan]: Thanks for coming on.

[TAOkJhjHQMM_SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely. It's great to be here. So I'm a software engineer usually based in the Somerville area. I've lived there for the last 10 years or so and was there right when COVID broke and my parents happen to live in Seoul, Korea. And they were, I got a lot of questions from my friends around early February saying, are your parents all right? Are your parents all right? Are you worried about your family? And I was thinking, I'm honestly a lot more worried about my friends and the people around us and myself than I am for my parents because I knew that the South Korean public health response was more better prepared for what was coming and has kind of been borne out in the numbers. So I'm going to share a little bit of my personal experience about going to Korea and all of that and what that entails and what I saw on the ground. and also the global situation as sort of a grounding factor for people who haven't been looking at the news. So personally, I was in the same boat as everyone else, as everyone is in right now. I spent about two weeks in isolation from mid-March to the end of March, doing the quarantine thing that all the responsible citizens are doing. And I realized that it didn't make that much. I was really lucky to have family in Korea. So I'm a US citizen. I was born in the States. And I was a little bit concerned that if I happened to get sick in Korea, I wouldn't be covered with health insurance there. But I was seeing the news reports that was coming in about how there weren't enough ventilators, how there weren't enough doctors, how there wasn't any room in the hospitals, and that you have to wait until you're basically not to be frank, basically a death's door before you'd even be seen by a doctor.

[Anna Callahan]: When you say you're hearing this news, you mean in America?

[TAOkJhjHQMM_SPEAKER_00]: In America, exactly. Yes. And I was thinking that that sounded really scary. So I got onto a plane to Korea and came and landed on, I think, at the end of March, so March 30th. and immediately got put through an immigration process and a kind of a quarantine process that I'd never seen before. I've traveled to and from Korea a fair bit. And basically I was taken to a secure location and tested. So basically as soon as I got off the plane, I saw, as soon as I stepped out of the airport, I saw like lines of testing booths. So very unlike in the United States where you can't get a test unless you're, although I don't know, it's probably a little bit better now, but at the end of March, you basically could not get a test unless you, basically, you knew you already had it.

[Anna Callahan]: Yeah, what I've heard is that it was, at first, you could only get tested, even if you had symptoms, you could only get tested if you had a known contact, if you'd been in contact with someone who was known to have had COVID. That was how limited the testing was, and now, Then it was if you had symptoms of COVID. They're loosening it up a little bit, but it is still very difficult to get a test.

[TAOkJhjHQMM_SPEAKER_00]: Right. And that's something that was on my mind when I made the move. And then basically as soon as I stepped off the test, I got a free test. So just to be clear, I am not a Korean citizen. I do not have Korean health care. I don't have anything like that. but I basically got tested for free by people in proper PPE, protective equipment. And then I was, for one day, I was taken to a secure location with all the other non-citizens while the test results came in.

[Anna Callahan]: I was just going to ask if the test results had come back yet. Okay. So yeah.

[TAOkJhjHQMM_SPEAKER_00]: And they came in overnight.

[Anna Callahan]: Get the test back.

[TAOkJhjHQMM_SPEAKER_00]: So came in about six to 12 hours. And then I got to go. I basically was free to go home. There were a bunch of restrictions as I wasn't a citizen and, you know, coming in from the United States, I was potentially at risk for COVID. And so I was required to install an app and report in on my temperature two times a day. Wow. Which you took yourself. Yes, exactly. And my location was being monitored on my phone. There was sort of an upfront cost that I had to take to kind of make the numbers that you see on television from South Korea happen. But in the end, what I was doing, which is just basically staying at home, wasn't different than what I was doing before I left in a large way, because I was just staying at home regardless. And the really nice thing was that we got sent a care package from the local Korean government. Wow. I have some pictures and they're actually kind of ridiculous how much food they sent me. They sent me a solid two weeks of food to encourage me not to leave the house. Yeah.

[Anna Callahan]: So even though you were tested and your test came back after one day, did they ask you to stay indoors for two weeks or did they just give you two weeks worth of food and then tell you you could go out?

[TAOkJhjHQMM_SPEAKER_00]: No, it was a requirement. So people who walked around, there was, I think, someone from Britain who walked around and actually had COVID and he basically ignored the app requests and he was forced to leave the country as a result. So they were taking this very seriously. So this might sound a little bit crazy, but they actually had one unannounced visit where they knocked on my door just to make sure that I was actually at home. So that might sound a little bit ridiculous, but at the same time, that's what everyone is being forced to stay at home now. You mean here in Somerville? Yes, in the United States. Sorry, excuse me. And now I can go out, and I can walk around, and I can basically do regular things.

[Anna Callahan]: So you had two weeks of staying at home. You got tested. Your test came back negative. Yes. And then you were at home for two weeks, maybe because there's some chance that you could have had, and it hadn't shown up yet on the test. For whatever reason, you stayed home for two weeks. And after that time, now tell us what is your life like?

[TAOkJhjHQMM_SPEAKER_00]: okay so after that time I got tested again and something that I glossed over was in that care package was not just food but there are also masks there are also there was toilet paper there was hand sanitizer basically all the necessities that you would need to stay at home for two weeks so it wasn't uncomfortable And I was staying at my parents' house, which I chose, and you can basically pick your location.

[Anna Callahan]: Now, when you were staying at your parents' house, did they have to stay home?

[TAOkJhjHQMM_SPEAKER_00]: So my parents did not have to stay home, as long as they didn't come into close contact with me.

[Anna Callahan]: OK, great.

[TAOkJhjHQMM_SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. So since then, life has been pretty much normal. So when I go outside, I see about over 80% to 90% of people are wearing masks voluntarily. It is highly recommended. You see advertisements everywhere for public health, on television all the time. So people are definitely still conscientious about it. But for the most part, life is going on. I think that even the movie theaters are open now, which is really nice. Although, from what I heard from my friends who actually did go to the movie theater, there were only three people there, and there were two of them. They're still taking it very seriously.

[Anna Callahan]: But restaurants, coffee shops?

[TAOkJhjHQMM_SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they have a regular amount of people is what I would say. The economy took a hit. It took a hit the same as everyone else did. But it hasn't ground to a halt. Unlike the traffic, which is now back to normal, and it's now very difficult to get anywhere by car, because people are basically out and about. And that's borne out by the numbers, which shows that For all of last week, the number of confirmed new cases a day was in single digits. And to put that in perspective, Korea was one of the worst hit countries by the outbreak when it first broke out. So now to shift from my personal perspective where I kind of put in the costs that I had to do, which were honestly were not that severe, putting an app in two times a day, stay home for two weeks, get tested. All for free, got free care package to kind of incentivize that. On the other end of that, I think at the end of February, there were a couple of thousand cases. There was a large incident with a spreading incident where a lot of people got it all at the same time. So there was sort of a panic response type of deal where the country didn't go into lockdown. People still went to work, but people were advised to wear masks, advised to have hand sanitizer. And you would see hand sanitizer pretty much everywhere for free use in elevators, at restaurants. And the number of cases dropped dramatically. And they had a very robust trace and, what's the word? What am I looking for?

[Unidentified]: Basically a tracing program.

[TAOkJhjHQMM_SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, where anyone who had come into contact with a known confirmed case was asked to stay at home for two weeks, just as I was, who were at high risk, and then was given testing twice. And they also implemented the the drive-through response, which is basically drive-through testing. You could get tested in your car, a lot like getting a coffee from Starbucks or whatnot, and there would be basically no risk of exposure.

[Anna Callahan]: Can I ask you, where does South Korea get all these tests? We cannot seem to get tests. You may not even know this, Why is there such a difference in the ability for people in South Korea to access tests than people like in Somerville, for example? Why can we not access tests here?

[TAOkJhjHQMM_SPEAKER_00]: So there's a couple of reasons for this. I'm going to start with some things I absolutely know are for sure, and then step into things that are less confirmed but still Probably true. So for sure is that Korea was exposed to an exponential respiratory virus in the past. It had SARS in the early 2000s and then MERS again more recently in about around 2016. And so the public consciousness and the government was kind of warned that this was coming, like in a very serious way. I think 60 people died from MERS back in 2016, which may not sound like a lot, but when you're dealing with an exponentially growing virus as the way that these things are, that is potentially very scary. And so the public health response has taken this seriously and has had a lot of testing scenarios in place in a way that the USA has not. To move to, so that's why Korea has done very well in this regard. While the U.S. has done so poorly is, I think, a little bit more controversial, but a very large part of it, I think, has just been the federal response. So from what I understand, in early February, late March, the U.S. government was actually offered a test that was developed internationally.

[Unidentified]: I've heard about this.

[TAOkJhjHQMM_SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, from Germany. And it was turned down. The reasons for which are unclear, but seem to lead to, what is it, the private health insurance company or private health companies looking to use their own testing to help benefit themselves at the potential cost of the public. And so I think that is, whether or not that all of that is exactly as I said it isn't clear. But it does seem to be that the U.S. has a habit of prioritizing private industries rather than the public health at large. And that's something that I think that we're seeing right now, what effect that can have on communities and people and lives. And I think that that is something that really needs to change. I don't think at all that the Korean political system is perfect. I think that it has, it's a real country the same as everyone else. If you talk to people, they have the same problems with, that everyone has with their local politics and their country's politics. But at the same time, I feel like there's a level of trust in the government and more abstractly in science in general to provide answers and Generally, if people say, if people hear on the news, science suggests that you should do X because it is best for you and it's going to keep you safe, people will generally abide by that.

[Anna Callahan]: I'm not sure. Can I ask, does South Korea have a national healthcare system?

[TAOkJhjHQMM_SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it absolutely does. It has basically the equivalent of Medicare for all in which everyone is on a government-issued health plan. So there are no private options, as it were. I know that South Korea is, actually, of all the world's developed countries, I can think of very few besides the United States that don't have a public health care policy. And I think that shows when private and public interests collide. And I think that that's really shown in the US today. So I don't know if that's a little too on the nose. But if you look at the numbers, it's really quite striking. So Incheon International Airport, which is 300,000 people, which is a major international hub, took in 300,000 travelers in the month of March. And not a single equivalent of their TSA, of those employees, not a single one of them have contracted COVID. Wow. Which is crazy. And when I was walking through the lines, every single person I interacted with that was on staff was wearing PPE, was wearing a mask, The people who were doing the testing were geared up from head to toe in what looked like an astronaut suit, basically. They just took it seriously because they had seen the power of exponential growth. And just because you can't see it right now doesn't mean that it's not a threat. And they didn't wait until they saw people getting sick to take it seriously, I think is the other thing.

[Anna Callahan]: Wow. It is such an amazing story. And I'm so glad that you started with the personal story of your own experience living in Somerville. And I had not realized that you were here when COVID started. And you decided to go to South Korea knowing that the South Korean reaction to this was going to be much better, was much better, and that you would be both safer and more free to go about your normal daily life in South Korea than here?

[TAOkJhjHQMM_SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I actually wanted to touch on that point a little bit. I think I saw a headline recently that somebody said something about South Korea not really being free because it's tracking people for all of these things. I mean, you can say that, but first of all, your phone is probably already tracking you already. And by probably, I mean, it's tracking you already. So that's the unfortunate truth of it. Second is that I had to install an app by the government, but I could uninstall it after that was over. So it's not like I'm being tracked any more than usual after the kind of risk period was over. And third is that I feel a lot freer right now than I did in the United States. I'm very, very lucky. I don't want to stress that enough, that I had the ability to work in a field where I don't have to show up, where I can work remotely.

[Anna Callahan]: And now in Somerville, you would be forced to work remotely anyway. Like you would still be having to work remotely right now.

[TAOkJhjHQMM_SPEAKER_00]: Right. That's because we need to. But we needed to a month ago and a month and a half ago as well. We just didn't see it yet. We pretended that the problem was going to go away. And that's obviously not good public policy, because the problem is not going to go away. Whether it's going to be with us for the next couple months or the next over a year remains to be seen.

[Anna Callahan]: But South Korea's response sounds like it's just a lot more sustainable than ours. Because you guys are going about mostly about your normal business, but with the testing and tracing program that they have, the contact tracing program, they can contain it very well, while most people are kind of going about their daily lives, and the economy is not under a huge hit. Does that sound about right?

[TAOkJhjHQMM_SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. people are really encouraged to get testing as much as possible. So testing costs roughly the equivalent of I think it's 140 US dollars so it's not the cheapest thing in the world but first you can get them and second if you test positive it's free. Right. So it's subsidized by the government and I think But right now in the United States, I saw tests being put out there for about $2,000 to $3,000. Is that incorrect? Is that crazy?

[Anna Callahan]: I don't know. We'll have to check. I really have no idea. We'll check on that.

[TAOkJhjHQMM_SPEAKER_00]: That might be crazy.

[Anna Callahan]: It might be right. I mean, hey, we're in the US where medical things cost ridiculous amounts of money.

[TAOkJhjHQMM_SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but at the same time, I've heard that the testing kits are not very accurate. I've heard that they have a 20% to 30% false negative rate.

[Anna Callahan]: South Korean ones or United States?

[TAOkJhjHQMM_SPEAKER_00]: No, not the South Korean ones, the United States ones. The South Korean ones have a false negative rate of, I believe, 5%. So it's not zero, but it's much better.

[Anna Callahan]: We'll get to our experts and we'll ask about that here as well.

[TAOkJhjHQMM_SPEAKER_00]: Again, I'm definitely not an expert on the medical side of things. But yeah, from what I can see on the ground, it's really night and day, the difference.

[Anna Callahan]: So amazing. So we have something to look forward to. We can get life back to normal and keep this thing under control. So it has been really eye-opening to talk to you. I appreciate you coming on so much. And I have to say, it is kind of amazing that your Skype feed is great. half a world away from us. So, good job Skype. Yeah, no kidding. So yeah, thank you so much. Do you have any last, any final words before we let you go?

[TAOkJhjHQMM_SPEAKER_00]: Not really. Thank you so much for having me on. It was a pleasure to be here.

[Anna Callahan]: Really, really fascinating to hear about what life is like there for you right now. And I hope we get there soon. Thank you so much. Great to talk to you.

[TAOkJhjHQMM_SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, bye.

[Anna Callahan]: Yeah, thank you. So that is it for our show. Thank you everyone for tuning in. I hope it was everything that you dreamed of and we will be back next week with more stories and questions from our community, with more experts to talk about those issues and with more ways that you as a member of our community can plug in and how we can solve these problems together. Thank you so much.

Anna Callahan

total time: 14.46 minutes
total words: 2170
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